Joel Dalais: Bitcoin is a 1000-year mission

Bitcoin is complex, no wonder people seek networks that allow for way deeper Bitcoin education than most digital asset enthusiasts have at this moment. There are questions concerning Bitcoin that are tough to answer or even unanswerable for now.

We still asked someone knowledgeable though. CoinGeek’s Michael Wehrmann caught up with MetaNet ICU founder Joel Dalais for an interview about the MetaNet ICU and wide range Bitcoin topics.

Hello Joel! Kindly introduce yourself to our readers and tell us what you founded MetaNet ICU for.

Joel Dalais: I have been in the space for a while, but I’m not that interesting, the MetaNet Members are far more interesting. 

The MetaNet membership club existed before BCH was even a thought in anyone’s mind. Though it existed not as a business at the time, but just as a Slack, a place for people to gather and learn. It catered to BCH before BSV, and then morphed into the MetaNet ICU at the dawn of BSV.

It exists to provide an information Pareto nexus that helps educate, provides sanctuary (from misinformation and general abuse from the misinformed and those against bitcoin). It provides a place where members can communicate daily and build social networks on a global scale. It is also used very heavily during CoinGeek conferences and other events to help facilitate what’s going on and to assist in organizing other things that businesses and individuals arrange around CoinGeek events.

The MetaNet ICU is one-hop from everywhere else (in our niche within a niche), and for some, it is an observatory of sorts whereby we can watch and keep guard of the growing sector.

How exactly do entrepreneurs, businesses and Bitcoin enthusiasts benefit from a MetaNet ICU membership?

Joel Dalais: Members gain what they give, even if they are simply silent, reading and absorbing information, they self-educate and spread that knowledge outside the membership. Some grow existing businesses or start a new business. Some use it as a weekly reading source, members also use each other for technical assistance, most of the wallet developers have a presence in the membership, or for testing new alpha and beta software. Or for getting general feedback on ideas. We also proofread each other’s works and articles when requested.

We also incubate other large projects that slowly emerge into the public space, such as Run or ANNE, amongst others. Our higher tier members can request private channels where they can pull others into and conduct their business or perfect their software.

Can you give an example of valuable information that was first or exclusively published/discussed in the MetaNet ICU and only later on hit the public sphere?

Joel Dalais: How to use the Bitcoin programming language, some of the necessary steps to global adoption, some of the things that Bitcoin is truly capable of. The A.I. potential and some of how it works, RUN and ANNE information (which I won’t go into detail as both are currently partially in stealth mode). And Craig (Craig = Dr. Craig Wright, aka Satoshi Nakamoto) has shared a lot of very valuable information over the years.

We also discuss other non-bitcoin subjects, origins to bitcoin, law, education, books, philosophy and some more.

Is there anything happening in the MetaNet ICU right now that is relevant for Bitcoin, but non MetaNet ICU members are unaware of? If so, kindly share it with us!

Joel Dalais: Yes, a few things, but I can’t share them. I can share this, keep an eye on the MSc in FinTech starting this September at Exeter University (U.K.). This will be the first proper BitCoin/MetaNet course and the precursor for other universities, nationally & internationally.

Also, ANNE is beautiful.

What else should we know about the MetaNet ICU?

Joel Dalais: There is a lot I have not said, but part of the process is self-education, and that people learn what they seek to learn. It is not run by Craig (as people have often mistakenly thought), in the words of Michael (Hudson), it is its own sovereign entity. And it has a 1000-year mission.

A 1000-year mission? Kindly elaborate.

Joel Dalais: There are things that need to be built and setup so that the probability of events occur in a certain fashion, business entities, philosophies explained, international institutionalized academia, repository (timechain) information, artificial intelligence, and more. If we fail in the here and now, we fail in the future.

People will understand more as businesses emerge, the MetaNet grows and as time passes.

Bitcoin enthusiasts from all over the world have diverse backgrounds and situations. If someone involved in the development of Bitcoin SV cannot financially afford the MetaNet ICU membership, is there any way to still get in touch with the ICU’s outcome or network at least a little bit? 

Joel Dalais: Yes, we have recently re-ignited, whereby new & unknown MetaNet members need to self-verify themselves (using paymail). This platform provides a way for users to communicate with members that have registered on the platform. This can be done via direct pm’s, groups or forums. The platform is relatively young and will be worked on in an ‘always improving’ fashion, as it can be used for a lot, but one aspect being the social-communication reasons.

We also host monthly videos, some more interesting than others, these are recorded and made public, and lately we have been opening attendance to non-members, though entrance is strictly monitored due to the anti-bitcoiners out there causing hassle.

As you are very “Bitcoin educated,” allow me to dig a little into your knowledge. HandCash’s Ivan Mlinarić pointed out that “timestamp server,” “timestamp network” and “timestamp(ing)” were mentioned several times in the Bitcoin whitepaper, while “blockchain” as a word was not mentioned there at all.

What does that tell us?

Joel Dalais: I have no idea.


Initially, it was called the ‘Timechain’, here are my personal thoughts on why:

Humans measure time by one second following the previous second. We exist on our own ‘timechain’. BitCoin/MetaNet, and eventually A.I. systems will also exist on their own ‘timechain’, where reality is measured by the existence, propagation and acceptance of blocks (orphaned blocks are the ‘reality that did not happen’, or thermodynamic loss).

And some philosophies talk about the ‘tick of the universe’, the smallest time constant. As an almost reflection of this we see Instant Transactions (0-conf), with the layer of the average block time (10 minutes).

In this we see two measurements and usages of time. For time is dependent upon the observer, and from the MetaNet’s point of view, the timechain is reality, each ‘tick’ (instant transactions) and each accepted propagated block. 

I think this is all I will say on this for now.

Allow me to push this a little further. While far eastern religions and philosophy, as well as certain old nature religions seem to have a “circle of life” point of view, the abrahamic religions and western philosophy rather focus on a kind of linear narrative of life (creation of earth on the one hand, messiah like figure returning at the end of time). What are your thoughts on Bitcoin’s broader function in the world as a time stamp server taking this into consideration?

Joel Dalais: BitCoin is most certainly not a religion, I will be very disappointed in the future if it tries turning things into a religion, I have expressed my thoughts clearly on this in the MetaNet membership, and for readers outside the membership—Craig is most definitely not Jesus and I/we will do our best to make sure it never gets turned into a religion.

Part of the MetaNet ICU is to establish things to make sure this does not happen.

Religion(s) have their place in the world, and yes, there are what might be called similarities with certain scriptures in this contemporary age. The thing to remember here is that humans are pattern-seeking creatures, we seek patterns to draw out conclusions, sometimes these conclusions are right, sometimes they are wrong.

If anything can be conferred from biblical scripture, it is that this is the end of an era, where humanities vague history and mistlike existence (for what is existence without history? without the past to build the future?). This era of history lost and rewritten, is coming to an end.

And the start of humanities truly recorded history has begun.

Could Bitcoin be forcing the whole world into a more “linear perception” of life? Would that be good, bad, or something else? 

Joel Dalais: Yes, and it would be a good thing. Change and growth is not to be feared. So very much has been lost to the ravages of history, so many stories, sciences and legends that maybe were not. The future shall build upon the present and the past, what we have started shall last, and those looking back will reflect upon the sacrifices those who fought in our time gave to them.

Would you agree that Bitcoin SV is kind of facing a “crypto cartel”? If so, what exactly is this cartel, which entities in the digital currency sphere are involved and for what reasons?

Joel Dalais: Yes, I won’t highlight entities, many require Craig to fail so that they may profit off his hard work, they will not succeed, from my perspective they have already lost.

The cartel did try to get rid of Bitcoin SV already, it did not work out at all. Bitcoin SV is growing and growing. How will Bitcoin SV get rid of the cartel though?

Joel Dalais: By building and growing. The world ‘out there’ (outside the “crypto” phase space) is far larger than the very tiny niche that currently encompasses the “crypto” world.

The “cartel” are like gnats, and there are far bigger obstacles ahead.

What kind of “far bigger obstacles”?

Joel Dalais: Big global corporations (Facebook for example), central banks issuing their own CDC and governments behind such CDC initiatives. Some of these will be using COVID as an example for tracking and tracing, invading people’s privacy and bringing the world that much closer to an Orwellian nightmare. The arsenal of patents will be needed to be drawn and used in the coming years.

I have asked Daniel Krawisz and Ryan X. Charles already, but many (myself included) still need some clarification concerning this question: Many think the only way to pay transaction processors (so called “miners“) is by transaction fees paid in satoshis. However, it is not unthinkable to actually pay transaction processors in fiat money directly off-chain. Does that mean fiat money could substitute satoshis?

Joel Dalais: An old saying of mine “Bitcoin as Money, is just the first application, prepared for what comes next”. In the future, some services, products, or goods, will not even show that they are using bitcoin as the ‘energy’ to power their systems.

Some small examples:

Buying a cinema ticket with your credit/debit card, paying in fiat, the recipient receiving fiat, the entire transaction being in fiat.

Yet the ticket itself will be contained as a transaction on the blockchain, containing the details (paymail) of the buyer & recipient, referencing what was paid for, and even containing a scannable QR code (if needed).

The ticket would be the transaction & the ticket. The tax on the amount could also be sent directly at the point of sale via this method, providing more efficiency and saving the recipient costs.

In this particular function, the miners still get paid, whilst the users remain ‘detached’ from bitcoin.

Or Baemail receipts, whereby businesses can eliminate fraud from returns and buyers can have an immutable record of their purchase, one that can’t be lost in a drawer, or on the floor as they walk out of a shop. It also improves time lost for customer service in this respective area. The buyer might be purchasing in paper fiat or by card, but still receive an immutable receipt that is far more efficient, and also upholdable in a court of law (see e-money regulations & law).

Or maybe doctor signatories for medical paid leave (sick notes), for benefits or medication. These things are forged on a daily basis and the cost is to the tax-payer. Imagine instead of all that loss it was put into the system properly, how many people would benefit? Would as much tax be required if so much wasn’t lost? And this is just using a simple signature attached to a paymail that is attached to an identity.

And all the methods provide privacy and yet can be proven if needed, thanks to the magic of paymail.

Are the satoshis truly indispensable for the Bitcoin network to run or not?

Joel Dalais: Yes, if you burn the coins (satoshis) into another system (lightning, WHC), it is not Bitcoin, and won’t work, because it’s not using the network topology and economic system that IS bitcoin and that enables it to function. And lightning, WHC, and these others, remain clueless as to the inherent programming language.

What else are you doing for and in Bitcoin SV besides MetaNet ICU that we should know of?

Joel Dalais: I tend to work on a ‘need to know’ basis, and not even Craig knows everything I do. 

But some things that people can check out would be, a little game I’m enjoying making, it also provides a few examples of what can be done and how-to, and eventually will tell the story of these days for future generations. 

Or MetaNet.ID, whereby users can self-identify themselves, attach their paymail, and after earning the ‘blue tick’ of verification, start to trade with each other, either BitCoin or products or services. 

And MetaNet.TV will grow again later this year.

We appreciate your insights and the work you do, thank you for your time!

Joel Dalais: Thank you, was a pleasure. To the creators, builders and teachers, BitCoin/MetaNet is calling, the MetaNet Era is here.

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